Veritas Forum: Summary and Reflections

To begin with, I am not very knowledgeable about apologetics or philosophy. I also do not feel qualified to easily address the big questions like "Why does human suffering exist if there is God who cares for us?" or, "What role does morality play in religion?" I can only speak for what I have understood and interpreted from the talk, with a limited perspective I have as a young, imperfect Christian. 

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Firstly I was surprised how they both look at the world with similar perspective, that the universe is immeasurably vast, that human beings are such, such small creatures existing in it & that we are the only creatures in the world who ask ourselves "Who am I?" and question our own existence. While Taylor mostly presented the idea that "humans are fancy, self-reflecting apes" who create both the positive impacts as well as tragedies across human history, Wright said that in Christian world view we don't view ourselves as the center of universe (contrary to what most people assume). Rather, we believe we are in fact part of a story that tells us there is a God who loves us and that we are purposefully created to reflect His image. That He calls a childless nomad (Abraham) to fulfill His project seems like a nonsensical idea based on our own logic, but Christians believe that His story is going somewhere eventually. God is not quite an interventionist who just stirs the human history time to time and remains as a bystander most of the time; however, He is always at work even when it doesn't seem so evident with our own eyes. And we as Christians perceive Jesus' life, crucifixion, and resurrection as the turning point of human history. 

Taylor mostly presented the idea that it is nothing else but ourselves that make historical events come true, and that human reason--when used rightly--is capable of solving the problems of the world. He defined morality as "hallow place of peace", and humans decide for themselves how moral enough a particular measure is. In other words, humans can have faith in their abilities to be moral enough; no outside force exists to swoop in and intervene. Moral constitutions are established/made concrete bottom-up, and different time of history settles into different moral standards. Wright came up with the counterargument that Christian morality is not based on some absolute norm or standard, but that it works around Jesus. It's more about living within the story of God to strive towards the admirable virtues like justice, freedom, and beauty. It's more about character development than something rule-based. 

Regarding human suffering and existence of God within all that, Wright talked about the importance of Jesus in dealing with the issue of human suffering. Even the book of Job which entirely talks about human suffering doesn't give a sufficient answer to why/what. It's more about understanding how Jesus came down to earth as human embodiment of one true God and embraced human suffering to prove his love for us. It's more about God coming in midst of it all and embracing it on our eye level. On the other hand, Taylor presented the idea that while we should recognize that suffering and despair are inevitable, it is up to us (humans) to redeem ourselves and no one else can do it for us. 

When addressing the nature of faith and its place in a "well-lived life", Taylor admitted he knows taking leap of faith is necessary to have a relationship with God and that it requires humiliating human reason, but to him it is so hard to make sense of faith and to let go of reason. To this, Wright said it's not about having strong aversion towards human reason, but more like de-idolizing it. Words like "religion" and "faith" only have a tangential relationship with the true reality. The true reality is different from maintaining a set of lifestyles or fitting it into the molds of political beliefs or any other institutions. Faith is not a cold, concrete thing itself, but rather "a window to let light in so that we can see the world with it. It is a warm, grateful thing." While Taylor mostly perceived faith as an achievement made through human effort and through fear and trembling attitude towards God, Wright emphasized faith is about how God has already been faithful to us since the beginning; it's not believing in dark, but clinging onto an already-established relationship of love and trust with God.

About religion being endorsed in public square, Taylor made clear religion is apart from rationality and thus should remain in private realms; religion cannot belong within shared reason because individuals are not able to or willing to negotiate it. While Taylor tried to put a distinction between being motivated by religious beliefs to argue for/against specific issues and pushing them forward within the context of religion, Wright argued those two cannot be clearly divided because humans reason and are inspired by our deepest beliefs. 

When asked what would turn them religious or atheist, Taylor talked about how he had struggled to seek God to large extent but eventually didn't find him. He thought perseverance of belief belongs more on the side of believers, and that religion has no standing; it's empty and irrational. Wright answered if somebody could absolutely/undeniably prove him that Jesus didn't exist and that he didn't die for us and resurrected, he will choose to become atheist. He said at each stage of his life he came to make sense of God. Instead of seeing Christianity as an individualistic thing through which you are saved and can now enter heaven, he realized it's more about God saving the whole world and transforming it to His new reality & God rightly putting people to justify Him in the world. "I believe in God because He is love, fear, tremor and all, but basically because of Jesus. Jesus is the center of it. He is the question and the answer."

To address some more comments from Q&A session, Wright agreed with Taylor's statement that "this world is an amazing place and that joy can be found everywhere" but added that while there exists dark side of the world God has already won against it; the dominant things from early Christian beliefs have been hope and joy we can find from later redemption we will partake in. About the fact that humans have failed over and over to solve world's problems with reason, Taylor said that's why it becomes a bigger mission for ourselves, and even if reason is limited we need to push on with it. On the other hand, Wright presented that we not only just become joyful after believing in God, but we are also given the exact bottom-up task. "Problem is not the reason itself. The reason to believe in Christianity is not because of reason but because of love. Love is the only thing we can't deconstruct with reason."

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Personally, the talk reminded me of how faith is not something we can achieve/earn with our own efforts; it is given to us when we enter intimate one-on-one relationship with God. When we love someone, we trust in him and have faith in him, then we are able to obey him based on that trust relationship. Everything starts with love in Christianity--without talking about Jesus' crucifixion and sacrificial love of his own blood to take away our sins, Christianity doesn't make sense. 

Maybe it's not about make sense of it all, but about choosing to believe. Just like what Taylor said at one point, God has a "fetish for freedom"; he gives us freedom to choose, and we can choose to follow Jesus' example and his display of love when we are in a right relationship with God. I was personally surprised how knowledgeable Taylor was regarding Christian principles, but maybe I shouldn't be when I consider his religious family background. However, I think the critical aspect of Christianity he overlooked is the relationship we build with God as we trust in His love proved by Jesus coming down to earth in human form, being crucified and overcoming death. Love in its nature is irrational. Our own rationality or intelligence are limited in their capabilities to lead us to full understanding of God's love. 

Reason is not to be thrown away, but once we start regarding it as the ultimate tool or solution for all of our problems, we end up idolizing it as a form of God/salvation. Human sins have their deepest roots in pride and arrogance, that we can become our own God or like God. When we mistake we are empowered to redeem ourselves, we are bound to sin against God. Guarding our hearts against Satan's constant whisper, which has been ongoing since the beginning of human history with the serpent & Eve, is indeed the biggest war we are on. 

Based on God's definition, a "well-lived life" is far from abiding to certain absolute norms or standards. It doesn't collapse into a fixed institution or set of rules. It's a relationship, it's a covenant made between God and us. It's all about love, trust, faith, and obedience. It's about two overlapping realities - heaven and earth - coming together, it's about us as children of God living out the Kingdom of God on earth to testify His love, looking forward to the marriage supper of the Lamb that will be provided to us.